Layer 8 Threats

[FloricSpacer]

So, the threats on layer 8 are less mechanically driven than the threats on previous layers, so I'm not sure the best way to implement them.

For the inanis ego, I was thinking a series of events with options that start from just using a sword (like on layer 2 or so) up to nearly nothing but relic combos working well. That would probably require a few different separate versions of encountering them based on how many days you've been in layer 8. Perhaps this event could have a random chance of occurring each day, rather than a set time interval between appearances, to show the typical order of the encounters being broken down compared to previous layers?

I'm really not sure the best way to implement the Demential Aberrations though, since they are supposed to represent the player's fear. There could be variations based on which companions are there, and what they fear? Perhaps the player could be asked what they fear from a short list (spiders, darkness, needles, and maybe a few more) then the event has a variation based on which one the player chose as being something they're afraid of? I don't want to create too many variations, but I also don't want the event to feel too generic here.

[Ilyza91]

I don't have the description of the threats now, but I google the original cyoa and come back to you

[Ilyza91]

For the first threat I would say from a mechanical standpoint, it reads like an event that might trigger a game over.
So make every day (or every travel occasion) trigger the event and do a randomized number draw. If you draw below some threshold you fail the event and you go to a game over screen. It makes sense from the story that the threshold should increase as time goes on. Give the threshold an extra bump on day 10, 30 and 70 as they start employing new tactics. At the same time, having weapons, relics and companions might lower the threshold again. For curses it would depend on the curse if they lower the threshold. Having massacre manicure might give you an edge while being small or unfit might be detrimental.

A good benchmark might be that below day 10 it should almost be an automatic pass, at day somewhere between 30 or day 50 it should become a 50:50 chance, if you are ill equipped, and day 100 it should be near impossible even when you're well equipped?

As from a presentation standpoint I think it would be nice if the story pulls some random curses and app descriptions to describe one or two versions of yourself you see in the mass. More importantly it is critical I think that players get a sense on how well they are doing in terms of these confrontations. Give them a near miss indication if the randomizer picks something near the threshold, but also give them a sense of how high the threshold is. Say the randomizer picks between 1 and 100 and the threshold score is determined at 10. You can add 50% to the threshold for the near miss text. So if it picks 12 in this case the text should indicate something along the lines that it should've been easy today but something went horribly wrong and you are happy you managed to barely get away today. While if the threshold is already at 50 (near miss below 75)and the randomizer picks 90 it should say something more along the lines that it gets harder and harder by the day and you feel that surviving next encounter might be a coin flip at this point, but that today went remarkably well and you can continue on your journey.

The point I'm trying to make is that these insta game over can be really frustrating if a player feels surprised by it, so we should prevent that feeling. That's also why it might be good to make the first encounter or the first couple, auto-wins, to ease them into the mechanic.

[Ilyza91]

For the second one, I think your own idea is probably the best thing we could do. Maybe we could do it inconspicuous by adding 3 or 4 short npc conversations that you 'randomly' encounter. Make 1 unmissable which inquires about your fears. We give a few options like spiders, snake, werewolves, tentacle monsters, needles, death, other people idk and let him just give a small tip that he heard to be carefull in layer 3 if you don't like tentacle monster or layer 4 if you're afraid of death itself, or don't worry because he hadn't heard of any spider monsters. So it seems to the player that this is the immediate goal of the conversation, while we'll be using that choice to select one of the scenes written for this layer.

For the companions we can just make a set list of fears. Maybe cloud and lily fear a certain person from their mysterious past, khemia fears slime girls because he really can't stand the texture or he can't beat them with his sword or something silly (but it would explain him not saving you on layer 3 if he is with you). Maru and saeko just fear something mundane that can be reused if the player doesn't go for one of these options (spiders, snakes, birds, idk) and cherry just fears herself and the havoc she might bring to people around here.

[FloricSpacer]

Hmm, I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of randomly determining if a player dies to a threat, but aside from that I think the are great ideas!

I think we should always give players an open option to say they won using some exploit or something similar at the very least. I do see how the randomness can fit with the Abyss "no longer being fair" at layers 8 and 9 though.

Maybe having it be a 2 part event or something. With variations for days 1-10, 11-30, 31-50, etc. Then at each event, you can use a tactic, and if it works you just go back to the hub, and (randomly) if it doesn't, then you go to a more dire second passage where you can try 1 more time. Then if you lose there, it's game over, and if you win you go back to the hub (with an injury?)

And that's a good idea! Perhaps we can frame it as an NPC giving some small hints about the future Abyss content, so if you say something like "I'm afraid of dogs/wolves" then the NPC will warn you to make sure you are always well armed or have enough food to satiate a beast when on layer 2. That way it will seem like an inconspicuous hint system for most players. Perhaps it can trigger upon a first attempt to enter the Abyss?

And I think to save work its a good idea to set as many companion fears to be the same as fear options that we give the player to choose, since we probably don't want to have to write too many options here.

I'm not sure how good I am at writing scary or horrific scenes, but I can certainly try my best lol.

Also, not sure we need to make Khemia fear slimes to make layer 3 threat make sense. I think it's easily explainable as him just not being able to defeat the slime with his sword tactics, we don't need to add a fear there. But it is reasonable to make that one anyway, and I can imagine some good scenes with an acidic monster evoking horror on layer 8.

I'm not sure how to write a scene regarding that Cherry fear though, it seems like it isn't conducive to writing. So perhaps we should choose another? Or it could be conceptualized as a kind of rotting away, as her self-loathing causes her to neglect herself, which manifests as a kind of fungus or rot. Now that I think about it, that could work as a cool concept. So perhaps that is a good idea!

Not sure about writing about a specific person for Cloud/Lily. I feel like something more general would be much more compelling to read as a player. Or it could be a manifestation of something they hate/fear. Perhaps Cloud hates and fears poverty, so you are pursued by countless starving people, begging to help, all suffering and dying with no relief in sight. And even if you do try to help them, they attack you, attempting to consume you. They aren't evil, but are a product of their desperation, and having to fight against that is Cloud's more admirable goal, but also his greatest fear if he can't succeed.

Lily could maybe fear uniformity or something like that?

Now that I think about it, there's some cool creative writing opportunities here actually!

[Ilyza91]

I really like the two part idea for the first encounter, You feel the stakes are raised during a second encounter and the more those happen you also get a sense of how much more difficult the situation is becoming.

I think the way you are thinking about the npc now could work but we still need 1 or 2 other npcs to make it less obvious I think because this first one can only ask about fears if we need to collect one, and we can also not make it a repeatable conversation as people will likely just try all the options and that would defeat the whole point of course.

I think these are all good suggestions to improve on those concepts, especially the cloud one. I picture sort of a zombie hoard of desperate and angry people that cry out that cloud let them down and they are still suffering. I think the khemia one I suggested would almost be a comic relief variant, which if you don't want it in you shouldn't. I agree it is not really necessary to explain him not helping you on layer 3 for the reason you mention, but it would be funny if the toughest of the bunch has the weirdest fear. If you want something serious though, I also like the more serious acidic slime monster variant. I think there is a lot you can do with that! I like the cherry idea as well, but maybe going even one step further of it being an image of herself that manifest as miasma that spreads curses and bad luck and corruption to everybody that comes near her. I still like my own idea on lily as her story eludes to some tragic past, and you can make it work with a classic '(faceless) murderer on the loose' trope, which we can still use a player fear as well. I think that's more tangible than creating a monster that fits a fear of uniformity.

I could always write some of these scenes if you want some help on it, but you're the better writer anyway and I think my strength lies more with mechanics of the game, but let me know if you need help on that!

[Ilyza91]

On second thought something that symbols uniformity, day to day drag or boredom indeed seem better. An army of faceless uniformly dressed salary men? Or some sort of slow moving grey spirit that sucks color and joy out of it surroundings?