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Translations of the MOOC #31

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pcmasuzzo opened this issue May 1, 2019 · 46 comments
Closed

Translations of the MOOC #31

pcmasuzzo opened this issue May 1, 2019 · 46 comments

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@pcmasuzzo
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pcmasuzzo commented May 1, 2019 •
edited by dannycolin
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In the spirit of being as inclusive and diverse as possible, the idea is to have the MOOC content available in other languages other than English.

First discussion has happened in the Slack room: https://osmooc.herokuapp.com/, where the following channels have been created for 8 languages:

Channel Name Language
#translation_de German
#translation_es Spanish
#translation_fr Français
#translation_it Italian
#translation_pl Polish
#translation_pt-br Portuguese-Brazilian
#translation_ru Russian
#translation_zh Chinese

The channels can be used to set dedicated translation teams.

Before hacking this, we should agree on the translation strategy though.

For example:

  • Do we create separate MOOCs for the other languages?
  • Do we make captions and only translate the video materials?
  • Do we find a way to integrate other languages into the existing EN content?
    Etc.
@Protohedgehog
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Thanks for getting this started, @pcmasuzzo!

So, there are multiple ways to potentially approach this. Having core teams per translation is a good first step, gauging what sort of interest there is and how to spread the potential workload.

What seems to be possible on YouTube at least is that you can just add subtitles easily to the videos https://www.youtube.com/timedtext_video?lang=it&ref=player&action_choose_add_method=1&v=CNKt8B07Kwg&ar=2 in Italian for example here (I hope the link works). There should be an option on each video to add subtitles manually, and then just follow the instructions within YouTube. It looks fairly simple, providing you can, er, do the translations. Coming from a monolingual person...

@gabrimarinello
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Subtitles on YT seem a good start to me. Leaving also the chance to learn from the original language...

@Protohedgehog
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Note that the location of the scripts for Module 5 are here: https://github.com/OpenScienceMOOC/Module-5-Open-Research-Software-and-Open-Source/tree/master/content_development

and here for Module 1: https://github.com/OpenScienceMOOC/Module-1-Open-Principles/tree/master/content_development (all in English for now)

@dannycolin
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dannycolin commented May 1, 2019 •
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#translation-it - ITALIAN
#translation-ch - CHINESE
#translation_pt-br - PORTUGUESE-BRAZILIAN
#translation-es - SPANISH
#translation-fr - FRENCH

Could we rename the channels so they follow ISO 639-1 or 2 :) ? (e.g #translation_xx-XX)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_639-1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_639-2

@julia10br
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For video content I think this is a great choice and it's very simple to use and explain to others, @Protohedgehog . Besides, I think it's the fastest way too. I vote for this option. Can I coordinate translations in Brazilian Portuguese? About written content, I agree with you @pcmasuzzo , we should think about a way that everyone agrees to use the same method. Let's try to find a solution to integrate translation into existing content, I believe that is the best way. How to do this is something that I will think about a bit more and I will discuss it with you. I will also ask for suggestions and ideas from the translators of the university where I work. I'm going to meet with them (the translation core) at the university on Friday and we'll talk about it and then I'll let you all know on GitHub, Twitter, Slack and via email. Deal? ;-)

@pcmasuzzo
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@julia10br perfect, many thanks! :)

@tosteiner
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tosteiner commented May 2, 2019 •
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Added #translation_ger for coordination of MOOC translation into German, updated @pcmasuzzo 's list above, now with eight language teams :)

@julia10br
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@pcmasuzzo , I already talked to Jon by email, but I promised to tell everyone about the meeting with the university's translator group. Well, after talking to my colleagues (translators who are professors and students at Federal University of Ceará) about the translation, they have absolutely approved the idea and all of them volunteered to help . The suggestion of the group is by using the software called Smartcat. The suggested software is free for universities. Is that ok if we work this way? Our group of translators is called "Letrare Project" (in Portuguese: Projeto Letrare). Certainly, I will let you all know about all of steps from then on.

@pcmasuzzo
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Hi @julia10br - this sounds great, thanks a bunch!
We should definitely discuss in more details.

Just to be on the same page - are you suggesting this workflow strategy to translate into Brazilian / Portuguese or all the languages we have in mind (or currently listed)?

@Protohedgehog
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Thank you so much for this, @julia10br!!

@julia10br
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Hey, guys!

@pcmasuzzo and @Protohedgehog , If everyone here agrees to use Smartcat and adopt this method to help with translation I think it will be great. Diana Fortier, the coordinator of Project Letrare will present a tutorial to the entire team of translators. I'll send her a message on Slack and WhatsApp and I'll suggest that she publish the tutorial on the Open Science MOOC channel of Slack on how to use Smartcat. I'll also add you in the channel, @pcmasuzzo . Deal?

@Protohedgehog
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This sounds really great, thanks @julia10br!

@julia10br
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Yes, @pcmasuzzo . The strategy would be for Brazilian Portuguese translation, but I believe we can discuss this for all the other languages listed. What do you think? I'm also going to ask these questions in Slack.

@dannycolin
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I think choosing a software before knowing if it's going to work with our workflow could cause us some headaches later.

Here's a few of questions I have:

  • What are our needs? Are they different for every or some translation teams?
  • Does translation materials should be accessible without the need to login to third-party closed-source software?
    • Terms of Service and GDPR
  • What guarantee do we have that SmartCAT or any closed-source software will stay free, won't shutdown, will have the same features in the future, and will works in every browsers? I mean even big corps like Google don't care that there products work in Firefox or Edge.
  • Could we consider Open Source alternative? Related to issue Use/Migrate to Open Source softwares to manage the MOOC #17 (Use/Migrate to Open Source softwares to manage the MOOC). I think that should be a top priority when we want to integrate a new tool in an open project. You can also find a list of software here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_computer-assisted_translation_tools

Maybe @tosteiner you'll have more ideas? :)

@tosteiner
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tosteiner commented May 8, 2019 •
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Hi folks, first of all: thanks for getting the ball rollin', and great initiative re: CAT tool, etc.

Off-topic: how the heck did you guys pull this off? future ⏳ ⌚️ 🚀 😄

Adding my five cents to @dannycolin's questions raised (spot-on, mate! 🎯 👍 ):

  • Since all of the OSMOOC's content is written in markdown to be compatible with our GitHub environment: Do we have any chance of checking if Smartcat has markdown support?
    • I'm asking because my experience has been that feeding CAT tools with .md files can quickly lead to headaches... (I've used Trados/Across for ages, but working through the German translation of the Foundations of Open Scholarship Development, I went back to actually doing this with Atom, because it was the most direct way of working with this)
    • Further contemplating on this, I'm actually not sure if the basic master/base/fork structure of Github would actually work with CAT implementation, because Smartcat in particular looks like a software ecosystem in itself (meaning all the work has to be done within the Smartcat space, and linking it to GitHub will include manual post-translation work)
  • Chiming in with @dannycolin here: If we want to keep text handling closer to the original GitHub workflow, I'd rather suggest that translators use a stand-alone #opensource CAT solution such as OmegaT

Might well be that I got Smartcat's workflow wrong and working with our text formats is no problem, though... just thinking aloud here 😉

EDIT: After surfing around a bit on this topic, I ended up in a proz.com-Forum (ProZ is one of the largest freelance translator marketplaces), and found a case that sounds similar to what we want to do:

▶️ ▶️ in short, Crowdin sounds like a great solution that has a GitHub integration, and the best feature of all: they support Open Source projects ❤️

    Q: Can I get an Open Source or a free Academic License?
    A: Yes. If you want to use Crowdin for an Open Source project, sign up for a free account, set up your project and send us a request. Apply for an Academic License if your project has educational purposes. Each granted license will include an unlimited number of projects, strings, and members.

@julia10br
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Okay, @tosteiner @dannycolin . So, what would it be like in practice, @tosteiner ? Will be created a single Open Source account or a free Academic License to condense all the translation projects in the same platform (Crowdin)? Tell us more about your suggestion. 👍

@tosteiner
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tosteiner commented May 9, 2019 •
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Hi @julia10br - hum, not sure, haven't dug into this any further, to be honest ... not sure if we want to first explore any other possibilities? Crowdin sounds like a feasible option, but I'm sure there's more than one way to go with this...

If we want to go with Crowdin, my proposal would be the following steps:

  1. one of the steering committee members registers an OpenScienceMOOC account (free)
  2. then gets in touch with the Crowdin team to apply for the open license
    • (side note: I think our project ticks both their "free candy" boxes, since we're open source and educational at the same time 😉 🍾 )
  3. After successful application, we then setup Crowdin to integrate with the main OpenScienceMOOC github project
  4. And once this has been established, we can do all the translation work/all languages with the built-in management tools, create language-specific translator groups & coordinators, and then, finally, get things going with the actual work on localizations ... 😃

@Protohedgehog @pcmasuzzo @dannycolin any thoughts? Would be happy to get this started, but I think this has to be decided upon by the SC first

@julia10br
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Ok, @tosteiner . I agree. 😉

@tosteiner
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tosteiner commented May 9, 2019 •
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@julia10br sorry about this, I realize that this is slowing down the actual, hands-on translation work, and the last thing we want is to curb anyone's enthusiasm - but since this affects all of the MOOC's modules, we better take some time to consider the options we have. Hope that's okay with you?

@julia10br
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Yeah, everything's fine. We all have the same goal. Besides, we learn from each other. That's the most important thing. Bye.

@dannycolin
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in short, Crowdin sounds like a great solution that has a GitHub integration, and the best feature of all: they support Open Source projects heart

Seems like they support GitLab too. Still find it funny that corporations are like "We support Open Source" but "Our code is closed tho"... I mean if we go with a closed software we should make sure that exporting our data is possible. Better safe than sorry ;).

Last little comment, I really understand the pragmatism argument when it comes to choose a platform but I would really like if we could have a kind of internal policy where we at least test open source alternative before making any final decision.

@tosteiner
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@dannycolin where we at least test open source alternative before making any final decision. agreed, but with translation environments, I just don't know any actual opensource solution that would fit our requirements... 🤔

@dannycolin
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dannycolin commented May 9, 2019 •
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@tosteiner but with translation environments, I just don't know any actual opensource solution that would fit our requirements...

@Protohedgehog mentionned Weblate and I know there's one called Pootle.

Edit Debian Handbook use Weblate. So I guess it could works for our text format.

@tosteiner
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Alright, this looks great! Sorry, should have looked around more, there's more options at https://opensource.com/article/17/6/open-source-localization-tools including Weblate

@tosteiner
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Adding to this, Weblate also offers free hosting for opensource projects on inquiry - any reservations about trying this route?

@dannycolin
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@tosteiner I guess someone could email them to have more information on the offer if it's enough for our needs. Do you want to do it?

@tosteiner
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Sure, why not 👍

@tosteiner
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Alright, request has been sent. Might take some time, tho ...

@pcmasuzzo
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pcmasuzzo commented May 10, 2019 •
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Hi all, thanks for this great discussion, I am only catching up now.

Great points raised by @dannycolin - I do agree basically to everything.
I would not want, however, that some of our principles end up curbing people's enthusiasm and passion towards helping (in this issue and anywhere else in the project)
@julia10br - please do stay in check with the updates of this issue and, if possible, port this discussion to your university's translator group. It's going to be a great exercise to confront strategies / ideas / possible implementations.

+1 for Weblate and thanks @tosteiner for pushing this forward :)

Last note - we will definitely discuss this in the next SC call.

@julia10br
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julia10br commented May 10, 2019 •
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Hello! Yes, I will. 🙂 The team is on standby and waiting for news. In fact the instructional material in text is the most complicated to decide how to proceed. You are right. Just one more question to confirm: for the videos on YouTube the translation can be done according to the example cited here before?

@geyslein
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Hey guys, as @Protohedgehog suggested, weblate is quite cool and should fit our needs. They also integrate the DeepL engine. So I m definitely +1 for this option. Any news about contacting weblate, @tosteiner ?

@tosteiner
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Nothing yet, no - their auto-reply mentioned they check their mail once a month, though....

@dannycolin
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@tosteiner Ouch once a month... They seems active on twitter. Could always try to ping them there if you don't get an email from them in a week.

@dannycolin dannycolin mentioned this issue May 17, 2019
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@tosteiner
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Hi folks, just a brief update: nothing new (yet) on the Weblate front... but one thing I just came across:

https://translatewiki.net/

maybe also worth checking out, whadda y'all think?

@tosteiner
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And, alas - news from Weblate: finally, they got in touch and we're now gonna schedule a call for Tues/Weds next week :)

@tosteiner
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Soo, still no news from Weblate... I suggested scheduling a call last week, but they didn't get back to me on that ...

will ping them again tomorrow, but would suggest to now also venture more towards Crowdin and/or translatewiki, if that's alright with all of you? any preferences? @julia10br @pcmasuzzo @Protohedgehog @dannycolin

@dannycolin
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@tosteiner It's good for me :).

@Protohedgehog
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+1 from me too! Thank you for pursuing this @tosteiner :)

@pcmasuzzo
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Fine by me, thanks for this @tosteiner :)
I'd say we pursue both Crowdin and translatewiki, and decide as we see how things proceed.

@tosteiner
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tosteiner commented Jun 17, 2019 •
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great, thanks, y'all.

current status:

  • Crowdin: Open Source request sent
    • Crowdin: answer received
  • translatewiki: Open Source request sent
    • translatewiki: answer received

@tosteiner
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Wow, those Crowdin guys are blazin'! Looks like we're good to go:

Hello Tobias,

Thank you very much for submitting the request and for such detailed information about your project :)

It seems your project fits our requirements, so we have already provided a free open-source license for you!

Feel free to invite translators to your project and translate the content.

Should you have any other questions, please, do not hesitate to contact us. We are happy to help!

Have a fantastic day,

@Protohedgehog
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Oh, wow, thanks so much for this @tosteiner! Could you share with the MOOC SC via email, and on the Slack group(s) too? :)

@tosteiner
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Guys, we now have a platform for managing our translations! Do let me know via GitHub, Slack or eMail ([email protected]) if you want to be added to start working on your language, or simply add yourself to the project via https://crowdin.com/project/opensciencemooc

@jgmac1106
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jgmac1106 commented Jun 17, 2019 via email

@julia10br
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Thanks, @tosteiner! 😉

@tosteiner
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Folks, I'm gonna close this issue here for now - all translation stuff happening over at

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@geyslein @julia10br @Protohedgehog @dannycolin @jgmac1106 @pcmasuzzo @tosteiner @gabrimarinello