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GEP-1291: Mesh representation #2565

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michaelbeaumont
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What type of PR is this?
/kind gep

What this PR does / why we need it:
GAMMA implementations need a way to report conformance and CRD compatibility.
This GEP proposes a Mesh resource.

Which issue(s) this PR fixes:

Fixes #1291

Does this PR introduce a user-facing change?:

Add `Mesh` resource for reporting by GAMMA implementations

@k8s-ci-robot k8s-ci-robot added release-note Denotes a PR that will be considered when it comes time to generate release notes. kind/gep PRs related to Gateway Enhancement Proposal(GEP) cncf-cla: yes Indicates the PR's author has signed the CNCF CLA. size/L Denotes a PR that changes 100-499 lines, ignoring generated files. labels Nov 4, 2023
@k8s-ci-robot k8s-ci-robot requested review from bowei and kflynn November 4, 2023 14:37
@k8s-ci-robot k8s-ci-robot added the do-not-merge/hold Indicates that a PR should not merge because someone has issued a /hold command. label Nov 4, 2023
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[APPROVALNOTIFIER] This PR is NOT APPROVED

This pull-request has been approved by: michaelbeaumont
Once this PR has been reviewed and has the lgtm label, please assign thockin for approval. For more information see the Kubernetes Code Review Process.

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First, thanks for the GEP. It looks good and seems like a reasonable path for this if we decide to go with it.

In my subjective opinion this doesn't help the project meaningfully. We are adding complexity that doesn't hold it's own weight in user benefit. FWIW I think the same about GatewayClass, though, so that may be an unpopular opinion :-)

Basically we are making a new resource (high cost!) with the idea that maybe we want to do things with it in the future (this is not convincing at all; we shouldnt weight hypotheticals highly) and to report some information.

This can, and imo should, simply be a page on a projects' documentation. This is orders of magnitude simpler while still providing as much (if not more!) value to users

@k8s-ci-robot k8s-ci-robot added the needs-rebase Indicates a PR cannot be merged because it has merge conflicts with HEAD. label Nov 14, 2023
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PR needs rebase.

Instructions for interacting with me using PR comments are available here. If you have questions or suggestions related to my behavior, please file an issue against the kubernetes/test-infra repository.

@shaneutt
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First, thanks for the GEP. It looks good and seems like a reasonable path for this if we decide to go with it.

In my subjective opinion this doesn't help the project meaningfully. We are adding complexity that doesn't hold it's own weight in user benefit. FWIW I think the same about GatewayClass, though, so that may be an unpopular opinion :-)

Basically we are making a new resource (high cost!) with the idea that maybe we want to do things with it in the future (this is not convincing at all; we shouldnt weight hypotheticals highly) and to report some information.

This can, and imo should, simply be a page on a projects' documentation. This is orders of magnitude simpler while still providing as much (if not more!) value to users

We appreciate your thoughts as always @howardjohn. These comments do seem to unfortunately provide slight ambiguity as to the prescription or specific actions to take on your behalf, however. The best read I can come up with of what action you may be prescribing is "don't proceed until we have stronger use cases / user stories". If that's the case I think asking for more and stronger emphasis on use cases and user stories seems legit, though I don't personally feel that it needs to hold us up from reaching a Provisional state.

In any case it would seem prudent for many of us who focus on GAMMA to give this some deep through and review it:

/cc @kflynn @keithmattix @mikemorris @whitneygriffith

Please review and share your thoughts and ideas about the Mesh resource concept.

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@shaneutt: GitHub didn't allow me to request PR reviews from the following users: whitneygriffith.

Note that only kubernetes-sigs members and repo collaborators can review this PR, and authors cannot review their own PRs.

In response to this:

First, thanks for the GEP. It looks good and seems like a reasonable path for this if we decide to go with it.

In my subjective opinion this doesn't help the project meaningfully. We are adding complexity that doesn't hold it's own weight in user benefit. FWIW I think the same about GatewayClass, though, so that may be an unpopular opinion :-)

Basically we are making a new resource (high cost!) with the idea that maybe we want to do things with it in the future (this is not convincing at all; we shouldnt weight hypotheticals highly) and to report some information.

This can, and imo should, simply be a page on a projects' documentation. This is orders of magnitude simpler while still providing as much (if not more!) value to users

We appreciate your thoughts as always @howardjohn. These comments do seem to unfortunately provide slight ambiguity as to the prescription or specific actions to take on your behalf, however. The best read I can come up with of what action you may be prescribing is "don't proceed until we have stronger use cases / user stories". If that's the case I think asking for more and stronger emphasis on use cases and user stories seems legit, though I don't personally feel that it needs to hold us up from reaching a Provisional state.

In any case it would seem prudent for many of us who focus on GAMMA to give this some deep through and review it:

/cc @kflynn @keithmattix @mikemorris @whitneygriffith

Please review and share your thoughts and ideas about the Mesh resource concept.

Instructions for interacting with me using PR comments are available here. If you have questions or suggestions related to my behavior, please file an issue against the kubernetes/test-infra repository.

@michaelbeaumont
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I'll close this PR until we can discuss Mesh further elsewhere

@mikemorris
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I like the idea here in the abstract (more than I like GatewayClass) and don't have any specific objections to the content of the GEP, but can agree we should hold off on introducing/requiring a Mesh resource until we have a specific functional need this will unblock.

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GEP: Mesh Representation
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