2026/04/23/the-split #7
giscus[bot]
Bot
Replies: 33 comments 19 replies
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All my support behind this team. |
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Not cool that Andy split to "steal" the trademark and hopefully you guys can fight and win with USPTO. Sticking with the human team here, agree with no one man Vibe codes projects for something critical like Meshcore. I'm guessing Andy saw $$$ and that is why the Claude like copy and quick Trademark filing. |
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No to monopolies and one-man projects. Enough of Trump, Bill Gates, and other self-proclaimed emperors. We don't want ads or spyware here. We're a community, and we're coming with you. |
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There's a certain irony here... when the official client is controlled by one man and not even open source. (I understand the reasons, but it's a terrible look for the project). With this said, I too will follow the lead of the people working on the MeshCore repo, and even help with some money if the sponsor feature is enabled. Thank you for your work, everyone. |
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I agree. I wouldn't touch mesh core for the first year of its existence because I refuse to use proprietary applications. Without meshcore-open I still wouldn't touch it. |
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So, what happens to the apps for iOS and Android? Were they Andy's, given that "unlock" link takes you to co.uk site? |
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The MeshCore app (ie. the one called 'MeshCore') is the still the best. Get it here: https://meshcore.io/#download |
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The app they refer to as official is proprietary and therefore not worth touching with a 10-foot pole. You must make sure that open source is all you support. |
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All my support to the team that has made this project so great. Don't let discouragement get the better of you; you're doing a fantastic job. Greetings from Spain. |
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All support to THIS team. Asking for and not demanding money is what this community was built on. Obviously Kirby is only in it for the payday. |
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Can Meshtastic and Meshcore now finally be the same community? I am so tired of the trench wars.... |
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No, they are fundamentally different on-air protocols and principles - meshtastic is built around the assumption everyone is a repeater, meshcore is built on central fixed repeaters. |
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Crazy concept I know but, given how cheap the hardware is you can actually use both, through the magic of buying two of them. The "war" only exists in your mind. |
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Really appreciate the transparency here. It takes guts to share this kind of update so openly, and it says a lot about the team behind MeshCore. Huge respect for the work you’ve all put in so far - it hasn’t gone unnoticed. All the love and support from a fellow firmware tinkerer. Keep building. |
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I support this team soon as I saw read this post via the Facebook group I logged in to my laptop with the flasher and updated the bookmark to reflect the true and original home of MeshCore |
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Not mentioned in the list of contributors siding with the core team, is the original creator of the flasher Rastislav Vysoky. Where do they stand? Is their flasher coded in a way that aligns with your ideals? As someone remarked on Discord: it's fine and dandy if the firmware wasn't vibe-coded, but if the flasher isn't trustworthy you're still up the proverbial creek. |
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That's recrof, he is still on board. |
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Well, this is what was about to happen, I started plaing with MeshCore about two months ago, bought a T-Deck, paid for MeshOS license and since day one I had a feeling it is an AI slope, no optimizations for battery usage, random crushes etc. then moved and paid for Ripple - this was awesome since te begining, great tool for enthuziasts and not a casual user that just want fun with new toy. There will be always a usergroup that want to support you as this what radios are all about - learn, build, use. Fingers crossed for you to keep the brand and push back greedy hands out of your intelectual property! |
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As a software developer myself I feel that both parties should have taken timeout and thought a bit. Using AI tools to assist and improve efficiency is a no-brainer these days. Why use a manual screwdriver when you have electric? Vibe coding without a person understanding and looking over the AI work is on the other hand bad. This can be bad for MeshCore as a prosject and a brand. Now we'll get two competing projects where at least one will steal all ideas and code from the other. This is just not going to end well. |
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I agree but what you described is actually a difference between vibe coding and AI assisted coding. I dont care about the FE as long as I can use CLI but with products designed from scratch using AI it is not possible to maintain it properly - even best LLMs have small context window compared to the project like this. |
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Generative AI is from the grounds up built on content theft, and on top of that, fascism looms around the corner, see this essay: https://tante.cc/2026/04/21/ai-as-a-fascist-artifact/ . Even if we leave the ethical questions aside: I personally prefer a project in which humans have gained knowledge and experience through experimentation (and failure) over AI slop. |
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If you want most people to take you seriously, leading with "AI = fascism" isn't the way to go. I'd also argue that the "content theft" argument won't work when it comes to codding, in a medium (the internet) where most stuff is based on someone else's work, and in a project used by people that tend to avoid mainstream platforms and often have no issues "finding" content by less "right" means to avoid things like DRM. When it comes to code, most people look at AI/LLM as a tool. You can make a very strong argument about the quality of code, for example, how it shouldn't be used to write firmware for devices with limited hardware that need good stability. But there's a limit, because it's hard to understand why someone that is good at code, but bad a web design can't ask some random LLM to create the base for a project's website, take care of the annoying things like different screen size support, accessibility checks, etc. It's a tool, it's not going anywhere, and it can be useful sometimes. I'm happy to point out the issues with it, but doesn't seem wise to go on crusades, especially when we (ie: me) don't know how or are not willing to put the work in and write code. |
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I'll support the team over what one rogue glory hound |
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I always thought Liam Cottle was Mr Meshcore. And for me he always will be, Liam till I die 🤣 |
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Liam is a powerhouse. |
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Go team NZ ! |
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Totally behind this great team. Following the progress of the real MeshCORE |
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Thanks for the update! I also learned about Meshcore and Meshtastic recently and have been really enjoying setting up my devices. It was so great sending a message from Santa Monica beach and someone in the mountains miles inland immediately responding. I'm still new to this community but what is the rational for closed sourced Meshcore app? Has that always been the case? Will the Meshcore app ever go open source and allow contributors? Thanks for all the work y'all doing on this! |
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I don't suspect they will ever open source their app. However, meshcore-open alright exists, and that's the only one I would suggest using. |
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beware of divide and conquer, we need to maintain this comms system in case WW3 breaks out. |
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The Split ;) |
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A few weeks ago, I created a meshcore group on simple X. For those like myself who refuse to submit to surveillance tech. https://smp4.simplex.im/g#AW5gWzrlNydKCf0QgvxyOC_HNnJufRxn9ZQEpyP0Zlc |
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This is exactly the same as what happened with Linux many years ago. Sure we all know the numerous distros out there but the core OS Linux cannot be used in itself as a commercial trademark due to the opensource nature of Linux being community lead. The "core system" here is Meshcore and simply MeshOS, Ripple and all the other variants out there all take root in an opensource resource. This means the methods of operating Meshcore may be open or closed source, bit it is very clear that Meshcore itself cannot be the intellectual property of one individual. Unless the "self proclaimed owner" is desirous of killing it off, which is simple lunacy! |
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This is exactly the same as what happened with Linux many years ago. Sure we all know the numerous distros out there but the core OS Linux cannot be used in itself as a commercial trademark due to the opensource nature of Linux being community lead. The "core system" here is Meshcore and simply MeshOS, Ripple and all the other variants out there all take root in an opensource resource. This means the methods of operating Meshcore may be open or closed source, bit it is very clear that Meshcore itself cannot be the intellectual property of one individual. Unless the "self proclaimed owner" is desirous of killing it off, which is simple lunacy! |
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It's a shame this has happened. It's probably futile to take sides, but any open source repo needs to cover this off in CONTRIBUTING.md. A common example is: Something like: AI-Assisted Contributions We welcome contributions assisted by AI tools (e.g., GitHub Copilot, ChatGPT, Claude). However, you are responsible for the quality, accuracy, and security of any code submitted. Disclose Usage: If AI generated a significant portion of your PR (e.g., a full function, component, or documentation page), please state "Assisted by AI" in the PR description. Human Review: Do not submit code you have not reviewed and tested personally. You must be able to explain every line. Copyright: Ensure that AI-generated code does not violate third-party licenses or copyright. Chris |
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Guys! Please check out issues surrounding “prior use” of the trademark that Andy has applied for. He may be unable to secure the Mark for himself since you guys have been actively using it since 2024. That matters A LOT. It is not at all a "done deal" that Andy "beat you" to the trademark office. Part of the trademark registration process in the U.S. Involves publishing the intention to use the mark which allows others to contest the issuance and can, in this case, prevent Andy for obtaining it. :) |
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^ can confirm |
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i’m new with MeshCore and the problem searching "MeshCore" on YouTube is that the videos of "Andy" are in the top list and so, i spend a big time to understand the difference between 2 websites.. also Github still to refer at them videos.. be aware that the "Andy" softwares ask some $$ for to have more access and that may change/rise anytime.. and i add, how to trust a AI today less to do a full verification.. |
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I don't honestly see the issue with vibe coding. The fact that it was hidden is troublesome but anyone upset about that needs a bit of a reality check. |
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Read it again. it's not about vibe coding. it's about claims. |
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Always the same story. I've seen exactly the same thing in the ADSB community with individuals claiming ownership and even selling the user db to the bigger companies etc... |
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Andy sounds like such a good man. I bet he has tons of friends that know he's got their back at 3 AM in an emergency. I'm 30 years into my software engineering career (I started early OK?!?!?!?), and I will never use LLMs to /write/ any code, and the primary reason is that they aren't good at it, since they were trained on garbage. Claude doesn't even know how to write C++. That being said, if you want to find a bug, or you want a pair programmer just to bounce ideas off of, it is probably the most powerful piece of software I ever encountered. No, it definitely is. In fact, sic 4.7 Opus in CLI mode on maximum effort on the codebase locally and tell it to leave no stone unturned. If it doesn't find 5 bugs or more, I'll give you $100 (but it has to be the first time you did that w/ an LLM, and I want screenshots). So, Andy is a UK citizen, who owns the United States trademark? Have you contacted a patent/IP attorney? Unless he has "Nexus," such as property, citizenship, director or partner of a corporation in the United States, I'm not sure as an individual he can even do that. (I am not an attorney, so what I just wrote is worth nothing, but an attorney is an attorney, and they can tell you if he's legally even allowed to do what he did–especially if you guys were not part of an official U.S. entity like a corporation or LLC). I will keep this short but I will tell you this: never sue anyone and do anything you can to avoid being sued by anyone at any time for any reason. I've been to war in court, and it's the worst thing that ever happened to me. If it comes down to it, and he wants to go to court, walk the F away. Everyone will stick with you guys (including myself and everyone I've sent this link to). Change the name to Meshnation, Meshmonster, Meshmaniac, MeshMob, whatever. It's just a name. Trademark that, before announcing it, and then Andy and Claude can go get married and live happily ever after. -- 2¢ from someone who's been in a similar situation, except I spent 3 years in court wasting all of the company's (my) time and money–I almost had to file bankruptcy. The only winners are the attorneys. Best of luck to you, and I'll pass the word to every nerd I know (which is more than a few) that there's been a talentless rodent causing trouble and now he's gone. Godspeed. |
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Just a quick question I’ve the trademark issue, have you tried raising a trademark dispute with the appropriate authority. As according to Gov.uk they have 60 days from the date of registration to raise an issue in relation to such a trademark, and you surely have historic logs proving the inception of the GitHub project and the progression of the MeshCore.io software for its various devices. Even though this guy has forked a version of the GitHub repository it doesn’t mean he owns the original trademark or logos, from what I have seen on YouTube, blogs post, discord etc.. he seems to be a grifter trying to make money off the back of hardworking community focussed developers - and grabbing what he can at the 12th hour and saying “it’s my precious”. Open source and the various licensing that allow the world to benefit from the massive pool of people that develop tools, applications, languages and hardware for the world to use and benefit from. There seems to be more and more people and companies thinking the my can just fork a GitHub and claim to have done all the hard work and then start selling the hard works of others GitHub, Developers and Governements need to clamp down on them “smash and grab” greedy people. With out hard working developers like the MeshCore.io guys and girls, we wouldn’t have amazing project like MeshCore and MeshTastic and many other great project including Slicer/Open 3D Printers. We need to stop this now before the heart of the open source developer community closes down the free software and just ends up supplying binaries/for sale hardware and no one benefits from that at all. Thats all folks!!! Thanks for putting up with my long rant. |
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This shouldn't be very hard to take care of. I have had lots of registered trademarks. The USPTO deals with disputes all the time. It is not hard to dispute this and the burden of proof is always on the applicant. In his application, he has to provide the date and an example of his first use in commerce. That means he needs evidence that he used the name exclusively for a product or service. As proof, sometimes a domain registration will work. In this case, it someone else registered a meshcore.xxx domain before he did, he is probably shit out of luck. This is not complicated and does not need to be a long drawn out legal fight. Either he used the name meshcore exclusively at some point, or he didn't. Just file a dispute. The USPTO examiner will decide if he meets the legal standards. If there is ANYTHING that proves he wasn't the first to use meshcore in commerce, he's toast. The USPTO is fair and averse to disputes. They will send him packing, and he has near zero chance of getting the denial overturned. |
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I go away on holiday from my boat, pick my 868 Yagi that arrived back at base and come back to insanity. Sticking with the team here, as a fellow Brit, this is sad. EASY LEGAL SLAM DUNK GitHub 19th January 2925 |
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2026/04/23/the-split
Migrating to the new meshcore.io site
https://blog.meshcore.io/2026/04/23/the-split
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