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Add pronounce and IPA tags in Siberian SC #4237

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merged 4 commits into from
Mar 21, 2025
Merged

Add pronounce and IPA tags in Siberian SC #4237

merged 4 commits into from
Mar 21, 2025

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10110111
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So the recently added SC TODO mentions a lack of pronounce tags in the Siberian SC. This commit adds them. They might be not 100% correct, but reflect most of what I know about the Russian phonetics (however strange this might sound from a native speaker).

Notice how ugly IPA looks in monospaced font. Even in LibreOffice Writer (with proportional fonts) it looks wrong. It's OK in the browser's address bar though... I suppose most translators will use Transifex or poedit, so this might be OK for them.

Also I didn't try rendering it using Qt, but I suppose this may be doubly ugly in our texture-based rendering on the scene.

Thus, we may have to think twice before showing pronunciations of names on the screen.

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Great PR! Please pay attention to the following items before merging:

Files matching skycultures/**:

  • Did you remember to update skycultures/CMakeLists.txt file respectively to changes in sky cultures?
  • Did you remember to define classification parameter in sky cultures (see index.json file)?
  • Did you remember to define license parameter in sky cultures (see description.md file)?
  • Did you remember to define region parameter in sky culture (see index.json file)?

This is an automatically generated QA checklist based on modified files.

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gzotti commented Mar 20, 2025

Ah, I am surprised now. IPA should go into (future) IPA tags. The point here is, European-trained readers cannot read cyrillic. We decided that "pronounce" should provide the basis for english-language readers. You can just rename this to IPA (as first sample) and please add english pronunciation aids.

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alex-w commented Mar 20, 2025

Please don’t mix pronounce and IPA fields

@alex-w alex-w added data Missing/bad/outdated data, but no code error subsystem: skycultures The issue is related to skycultures of planetarium... labels Mar 20, 2025
@10110111 10110111 marked this pull request as draft March 20, 2025 17:18
@10110111 10110111 force-pushed the siberian-pronounce branch from a8c0518 to a340715 Compare March 20, 2025 17:21
@10110111 10110111 changed the title Add pronounce tags in Siberian SC Add IPA tags in Siberian SC Mar 20, 2025
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So OK, let this PR be about IPA then so that we don't lose this. It's tedious to compile the symbols for the words...

Are there any rules we should be using when writing "pronounce" entries? E.g. do we denote stressed syllables, how?

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alex-w commented Mar 20, 2025

Hmm… I think we should use one of various existing styles (or schemes) for transliteration Russian text onto English in future.

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alex-w commented Mar 20, 2025

“english”: “Golden stake”, “native”: “Золотой кол”, “pronounce”: “Zolotoy kol”

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gzotti commented Mar 20, 2025

Yes, for languages using Cyrillic, just write how you would find it in English literature or newspapers, so generally without accents. This is why I argued that the pronounce tag should be translatable to adjust for what would be found in transcriptions in French, German, Italian, Spanish, ... . The IPA will be fixed. I am fully aware that IPA is a lot of work (yes, also finding the glyphs...), needs dedicated language experts and a lot of time. But we should be open for it, in the long run.

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IPA for Golden Stake is still missing, and you must know better how to transcribe Russian. For me it looks OK for now. (Squash it.)

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alex-w commented Mar 20, 2025

Thus, we may have to think twice before showing pronunciations of names on the screen.

I think we may have some special block in description (an automatic generated table?) for names/native names/pronounces/IPAs/etc.

@alex-w alex-w added this to the 25.1 milestone Mar 20, 2025
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gzotti commented Mar 20, 2025

#4179 is about this. In 25.1 we don't show IPA yet, but this here can be an example during feature development.

I think StelObject should get methods createScreenLabel() and createInfoLabel(), which, depending on two new settings (which extend Skyculture's display options short/native/translated), will create the right label style. Of course, the separate native planet name checkbox will also go away. Given that not all SCs have all data entries and that users may be more familiar with some SCs and less with others, the display styles should be stored per-SC.

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alex-w commented Mar 20, 2025

I’m not sure that it should be stored per-SC

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@10110111 please add IPA for star and it can be merged

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gzotti commented Mar 20, 2025

I’m not sure that it should be stored per-SC

I am afraid I have thought too long about this to say one fits all. It depends on languages a user knows or wants to know more about. If e.g. Chinese characters are completely illegible to you, you will likely not show them but show Pinyin, and maybe translation. But you may be able to read Cyrillic and want to improve your language knowledge here. Or maybe you are just beginning and need Cyrillic plus transcription (unfortunately called pronunciation now, but this cannot be changed as discussed before), but you don't need the translation any longer. Same goes for any mix of Arab, Korean, Sanskrit or even Cuneiform (when added). Decorative squiggles uselessly obscuring the screen, or meaning? So, here, I don't see how a single setting can be sufficient. With the limitations of the ini format, maybe it's even a new json file in the user's skycultures directory. Or actually, two dedicated sections in config.ini may be enough. And I recommend immediate-store mode for all: easily changed, remembered last setting for next time you activate this SC, and an inadvertent flip does not break anything.

@10110111 10110111 changed the title Add IPA tags in Siberian SC Add pronounce and IPA tags in Siberian SC Mar 21, 2025
@10110111 10110111 marked this pull request as ready for review March 21, 2025 01:00
@github-actions github-actions bot requested review from alex-w and gzotti March 21, 2025 01:00
@alex-w alex-w merged commit de9ae0a into master Mar 21, 2025
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@alex-w alex-w deleted the siberian-pronounce branch March 21, 2025 01:29
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3 participants