[TimMonko]

References and relevant issues

napari/workshops#87

Description

gh pr create lost my first description so this will be shorter...

A common issue from folks is that the workshops website is hard to find. Sensibly, they search napari.org which is not linked to the separate napari.org/workshops build. Can also see this in #1093. However, cross site linking still does not resolve this very out of date content. This PR:

1. Tells folks to look at napari.org/workshops for the materials -- and how to contribute their own
2. moves the links to past workshops to Move napari/docs workshop archive to here workshops#87

Original description

1. redirects all user links to napari.org/workshops and contributing links to github.com/napari/workshops\
2. I keep hear the old page, but orphan it and redirect it to napari.org/workshops. This is because there are many public links to this page (videos, old workshop materials, etc)
3. and Move napari/docs workshop archive to here workshops#87 sticks the old content in an archive

note: this could be done with sphinx-reredirect but at this scale I think a single redirect is better than going through napari deps/constraints and .

[psobolewskiPhD]

I think there is a distinction between contributing your material to a shared repo and listing your materials in shared location.

Also I think it might be best to keep official napari workshop material distinct? especially with the paid napari workshops? I feel like there could be some potential friction if paid workshops used community materials -- licensing and all that.

[psobolewskiPhD]

I don't love taking this down.
I get that the listing is out-dated -- a real shame -- and the materials may be out dated, but this was also a good way to show impact -- both of napari and of the workshop runner -- in a grant proposal, CV or whatever.

As noted above, napari/workshops is a different beast IMO.

[psobolewskiPhD]

I'd prefer that we made the new napari/workshops more highly placed and visible, rather than the changes introduced that I highlighted.
As I noted in the comment above, I think that now with paid workshops, we should be more careful with what we take credit for and how -- which includes where things are located/positioned.

I really don't like wiping out this sort of historical record of workshops, it's a shame it's not up to date, but it still speaks to the engagement with the project.

I won't block since i'm probably missing context and out of my depth.

[TimMonko]

I'd prefer that we made the new napari/workshops more highly placed and visible, rather than the changes introduced that I highlighted. As I noted in the comment above, I think that now with paid workshops, we should be more careful with what we take credit for and how -- which includes where things are located/positioned.

I really don't like wiping out this sort of historical record of workshops, it's a shame it's not up to date, but it still speaks to the engagement with the project.

I won't block since i'm probably missing context and out of my depth.

I think that what you are saying sounds reasonable, and also isn't aligned against what I think we're (the sustainability strategic group: @DragaDoncila @jni and Tracy) working twoards. The context I would add is that this history isn't being deleted it just now exists at napari.org/workshops/archive (napari/workshops#87) -- I think I'd prefer another name than archive because it sounds dated, but I can't figure out how to capture the idea of "a living document of other workshops that are not hosted on napari.org/workshops". Maybe I could just call it "external archive"?

We also do not think of napari.org/workshops as paid workshop material, indeed we've run those materials more often for "free" (barring conference costs) than we have paid (just the pilots so far). Instead, what folks would be paying for is the instructor running the workshop. This is how the carpentries has been established and something that was a big part of our discussion.

In addition to that, we've encouraged community members who have expressed interest to run our workshop materials themselves for introducing napari. Our goal is to build up a shared community-built (if it so be) awesome workshop series. To that extent, I was trying to word and encourage folks to contribute to github.com/napari/workshops as they'd like :)
We are also working to make it more modular such that people would be able to run custom workshops using our modular materials and still serve them at napari.org/workshops, maybe this lives in a community section on the sidebar. Pixi's env and tasks definitions serve us in an exceptional way compared to workshop setups years ago.

A few motivations for napari.org/workshops being centralized includes easier to maintain and gaurantee its up to date, non-diverging strategies, and iteration towards improvement.

How does this sound to you? I think I'm having some trouble articulating this, but would be happy to talk to you more and get your thoughts, especially as a seasoned and devoted workshop contributor and instructor.

Maybe I should create such a mission statement for napari/workshops

[psobolewskiPhD]

To me, the new napari/workshops site looks and reads like a site for napari core team workshops.
Don't get me wrong, it's a great site and promoting it is of course fine and the team running workshops from organized materials is great, but i think that's distinct from a page about napari workshops in general.

To me there is a distinction there between napari workshops -- especially now that there are paid ones -- and workshops about napari -- the 2nd is more community oriented. Note: even your post above demonstrates this distinction, perhaps unconsciously?: "our workshop materials", "other workshops", so on.

Perhaps that distinction is more subtle or less important than my impression of it and I'm probably biased as I was actively involved in the old way and not actively involved in the new way. To me, organizing and running a workshop requires massive amount of time, effort, and dedication -- I think we all know this. But someone doing so of of their own volition, without being a part of the napari team, is I think the most incredible thing and a sign of amazing investment!

So, if it were up to me, I would keep the existing page as the one centered on workshops about napari -- while linking to the new napari workshops site, of course because it certainly qualifies. However, I recognize that it's not up to me, which is why i didn't mark request-changes.

(And of course I recognize that anyone can use the new materials -- which really are great -- because they're on the internet after all.)

[jni]

Thanks both for the thoughtful discussion.

I think fundamentally the goals presented by both of you are not as conflicting as it seems. We can do all these things at once:

• Unify all workshop content at napari.org/workshops
• Celebrate and promote past workshops
• Distinguish between our materials and external materials
• Make clear to folks that they can contribute both by contributing to and/or using our materials and by rolling their own and listing their workshop in our page
• (bonus!) have a calendar/page where folks can publicise upcoming workshops

For one thing I would rename "Archive" to "Past workshops", and I would have some text in the napari/workshops home page and readme that explains the different parts of the site and what they're for.

Dunno if all needs to happen in these first two PRs, but it should happen quickly.

Regarding redirecting, I think we could just keep the page and have clearly labelled links:

This page has moved!

• For current workshop materials managed by the napari team, see here
• For a listing of past workshops, see here
• For a listing of upcoming workshops, see here
• For help developing your own workshop, see here

And the advantage is that folks don't feel gaslit with the redirect, which is always a risk when you switch too many things around at once.

How does all that sound?

[psobolewskiPhD]

I think this breakdown sounds very much in line with what I was trying to convey:

For current workshop materials managed by the napari team, see here
For a listing of past workshops, see here
For a listing of upcoming workshops, see here
For help developing your own workshop, see here

At the risk of getting hissed at, I will probably look at using an oracle to revive the workshop-template repo, as at least to me it was invaluable in getting my workshops off the ground.

[brisvag]

@TimMonko do you want to fix up the PR based on the discussion above before 0.10.0?

[github-actions]

Rendered docs for 9ae0744: https://output.circle-artifacts.com/output/job/87ed0ec3-3d31-48ac-8b7d-9f580fe8dac2/artifacts/0/docs/docs/_build/html/index.html

[TimMonko]

Thanks for the great discussion everyone! @psobolewskiPhD and @jni your ideas were very helpful so I went through and restructured:

1. I brought back the past-workshops page for napari/docs and updated it as Juan suggested with the various links
2. As such, corresponding changes were made in the reorganization effort in Move napari/docs workshop archive to here workshops#87
3. So, Move napari/docs workshop archive to here workshops#87 also has updated instructions on how to contribute to itself, community events, and past workshops (and encouragmeent to build)

As such, the community is now encouraged to use and rebuild with napari/workshops though:

At the risk of getting hissed at, I will probably look at using an oracle to revive the workshop-template repo, as at least to me it was invaluable in getting my workshops off the ground.

@psobolewskiPhD, no reason to hiss at you from me :) You are welcome to do so. This was part of the discussion when moving to the new napari/workshops and ultimately we decided on our current setup for a few reasons:

1. Workshop materials are either much more centralized (like us) or well established (like CBIAS) so we felt it good to invest in one set of materials on our own end.
2. Doing it this way, for us as a project, is more cohesive and prevents fragmentation of our effort
3. Also, centralizing the workshop materials will keep them more up to date, relevant, and easier to maintain

Again, you are more then welcome to spin up a template, and if possible, contribute to napari/workshops with the template somehow! This wasn't in scope for my effort though.
🍻

What's also not done is a recent sustainability discussion where we should really update the napari/workshops homepage to emphasize the "You can pay us to run workshops for you" part -- but I need to think about how to approach that more.

[brisvag]

I like it!